Cheapest Way to a Sub Four 0-60 DD

"Wjionieis" (wjionieis) 06/10/2015 at 23:42 • Filed to: None

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Challenge Opponauts, what’s your cheapest to a 3.99 0-60 time reliably. Adding a twist It has to be daily drivable, not stripped interior just barely road legal Mazda 3 levels of usability (that means at least 4 seats) but have super car beating performance. I will allow drag tires.

TheHondaBro > Wjionieis 06/10/2015 at 23:45

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Modded MkIV Supra TT.

CB > Wjionieis 06/10/2015 at 23:45

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Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R-Spec goes for under $30k CAD used now, and that has a 0-60 time of 4.9 or 4.8, I think. Either add turbos or a supercharger for however much those cost, exhaust, whatever to get the power up. Might cost another $10k on top of it.

Alternative, buy an E60 M5, add turbos or whatever, go fast. Probably could be done for under $30k. But not exactly reliable.

DrJohannVegas > Wjionieis 06/10/2015 at 23:46

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Craigslist beater, off a cliff. (26.8 m/s in about 2.75 seconds.)

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Wjionieis 06/10/2015 at 23:46

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Hellcat. Either one. Both have 4 seats and full interiors. And warranties.

Nibby > Wjionieis 06/10/2015 at 23:55

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Steal a fast car.

mcseanerson > Wjionieis 06/10/2015 at 23:55

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C5 corvette + turbo. Next question?

GhostZ > Wjionieis 06/10/2015 at 23:57

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Probably an LS or small block swapped 280Z/280ZX. Total cost is under $6000 and it would still be daily driveable, provided you found a decent base car. The 2+2 models are cheaper and do have back seats.

After that, I’d say a turbo late-90s civic, or a early-2000s camaro.

Thing is, you don’t need tons of power to get 0-60 that fast. Just good grip, high gearing and planted (or solid rear axle if RWD) suspension. Take an LS1 camaro, give it great rear tires and the highest rear axle ratio that keeps you out of third gear and you’d be set.

No new car is going to be the cheapest, no way.

AthomSfere > Wjionieis 06/10/2015 at 23:57

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Assuming numbers are correct for a 1996 M3,

$7k~

Replace seats with light seats, remove AC and audio crap no one needs in a car, and thinner lighter tires/ wheels.

High flow filter, remove cat. Sounds about like shaving 3.1s off the 0-60 ~10k total.

GhostZ > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/11/2015 at 00:01

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Cheapest.

GhostZ > TheHondaBro 06/11/2015 at 00:01

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Maybe if you conned into someone selling it for half price.

GhostZ > mcseanerson 06/11/2015 at 00:02

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Needs 4 seats, unfortunately.

TheHondaBro > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 00:03

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Get a big turbo and put a Civic around it.

1111111111111111111111 > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 00:06

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Atom. Then tow the other two seats.

mcseanerson > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 00:08

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I is illiterate. GTO + turbo.

GhostZ > mcseanerson 06/11/2015 at 00:10

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GTOs are... unfortunately getting fairly pricey.

I suggested in my comment a LS1 camaro (SS or Z28) from the early 2000s, with good rubber and high rear end gears. Barring that, yeah some mild boost would get you over the line.

mcseanerson > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 00:17

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Camaro’s are good but those 4th gen LS1 guys held really high prices for a long time and are only just now starting to come down. For some reason the C5 depreciated so much faster.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 00:17

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But also very DD. How many sub 4 second runs could most of these “tuned” cars do? And while also carrying 4 people. And while also being unmodified. With a warranty.

GhostZ > mcseanerson 06/11/2015 at 00:20

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It’s the looks. Anyone who doesn’t care about the looks are more willing to get a camaro than a C5. Anyone who does, doesn’t like the C5.

GhostZ > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/11/2015 at 00:23

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There are plenty of people who DD modified cars without having danger to their manifold.

But if the thought of doing the research and getting the experience necessary so you don’t have to rely on a warranty or pay three times as much for the same performance bothers you, then stick with a new car.

The Hellcat is a great car, it’s not the cheapest way to have that kind of performance and never will be. For the price of a single hellcat, you could build, own, insure, and drive 2 cars that get sub-11 second quarter miles easily.

There are many ways to mitigate the risk of owning an unusual car outside of hoping for a factory warranty. And warranties are not cheap.

SlickMcRick > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 00:28

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Fox Body + FI and and aggressive gearing

Wjionieis > AthomSfere 06/11/2015 at 00:33

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Does that actually work?

Wjionieis > Nibby 06/11/2015 at 00:33

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Maybe I should have added legal

Wjionieis > TheHondaBro 06/11/2015 at 00:34

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If only the import laws allowed than maybe

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 00:53

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Plenty are not the majority. And those top shelf parts cost some serious money. Not to mention time. Not just in the install, but in the experience needed to get to that point. I have owned and modified several old cars including a supercharged riviera that ended up being a surprise for many a ricer on woodward. Can you build a cheap car that can do the 0-60 run really fast and still be streetable while also having good manners all around? Yes. But the reality is for every 10 people who try that, maybe one succeeds. You could have a professional build it, but then by that point if the goal is imply chasing the numbers then an AMG merc off carmax would be better. And 60k for that performance is a screamer of a deal. You can laugh all you want, but I know for a fact that those cars will rip that 4 second 0-60 and what 12 second 1.4 miles on street tires? They’ll pull those numbers all day, every day. Even the *best* modified cars that I;ve seen have a surprising number of bad days since they were cars being pushed to the VERY LIMIT of what they can do.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > AthomSfere 06/11/2015 at 00:55

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Stop doing drugs, they mess with your head...

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 00:57

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The rust free Zs are well over 10k unless they’re a shell. ANd then to make it fully interiord and whatnot, you’re looking at a minimum of.......I’d say a 20-25k factoring in everything. You’re smoking crack to think 6k is even close. Gearing it down still requires shifting so you’re out of the 4 second range because of that alone unless you spend some serious $$$ on a very good transmission.

wiffleballtony > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 01:06

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Probably in my case, 3.55 final gear ratio, stiffer control arms and sticky tires would probably do the trick. Probably about $500 in parts, probably another couple hundred in labor. And then whatever tires would set me back.

GhostZ > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/11/2015 at 01:07

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You’re looking in the wrong place if you’re not finding a daily driving 280ZX for under $3k. Especially a 2+2. People hate these cars. They’re ugly and are very common. You might have to hunt for it, but they’re there. They have not begun to appreciate at all and prices for anything except for clean 240z and 260z are generally steady or falling.

The question is what is possible, not what the average joe could do.

A rust free early-year collectible 240Z in running condition? Yeah, sure 10k. But this question isn’t to make a showroom worthy car. It’s a daily driver. It’s a beater. It doesn’t even have to be rust free as long as the frame is steady, and it’s going to have the same rust on it that you’d get from a 90s corolla in any city where they salt there roads... and guess what? People are daily driving those still without a care in the world, unibody or not.

The whole drivetrain (transmission included) can be gotten from a pick and pull for under $1000 and the bolt-in subframe for either a small block or an LS is sold new and can be shipped.

The later 280ZX turbo used a T-5, which bolts right up to a small block. so you don’t even need a new transmission if you have the right bell housing to go with the engine and the mounts are available used or aftermarket. This means no new transmission mounts, no new driveshaft, no new rear end, it can all be taken from donor cars or bought used. This means the swap is much easier than you might think and way cheaper.

The hood clears the small block and it actually lightens the car if it comes with aluminum heads.

You could probably run the math and figure out what the best rear end ratio (and Nissan made a TON of swappable rear ends for the 280ZX, including limited slip ones, and they’re easy to find used) would keep you from having to shift into 3rd to get to 60mph to prevent the extra shift from the new rear end gearing.

Is it easy? No.

Is it convenient? No.

Is it cheap if you have a professional to do it? No.

Can you do it if you haven’t done the right research and know the right people? No.

But will it get the job done? Yes.

Is it cheaper than a hellcat? Yes.

Is it cheaper to do and pay for a professional to do it than buying a Hellcat? Hell yes.

$6k might be a bit low, but all the parts alone come in under that price. Anything above that is just labor and security. You don’t need top shelf parts for a daily driver.

GhostZ > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/11/2015 at 01:13

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I think the difference is what is possible and what is possible for anyone to do. Your average ‘grounded to the ground’ driver can’t even fathom what he’d have to do to get a modified car to run properly.

There’s also the question of whether or not you want a car that is capable of it on a daily basis, or just capable of it once and also being a daily driver. I mean, any cheap pony car and nitrous will get you numbers if you don’t mind blowing the rear end out after a few runs.

But that being said, given the sheer wealth of experience and documentation available on many tried and true modifications, it’s hard to just state that $60k on a hellcat is going to really be better than a used or modified car. Especially when we’re only talking 0-60 here, not top speeds, and luxury and comfort is an afterthought.

A Carmax AMG is actually a pretty interesting answer to the question, sort of a middle ground between a turbo camaro or a hellcat.

samssun > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 01:22

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This is a good question, framed the way you have it, which I assume means you don’t just want to buy a beat up 5.0 or 350 and spend a couple grand making it a dragster. Obviously forced induction, decent weight, and AWD help the easy factor.

If you’re talking “cheap for a high performance car I could live with” rather than “cheapest way to cram a small block into a Miata”, you’ve got everything from DSM cars, 300ZX, and B5 S4 to (pricier but more DDable) tuned B8 S4, 135/335, and WRX/STI.

Current Mustang GT needs a couple years under its belt but shouldn’t take much to break 4 seconds. Golf R is too new and low volume but once the S3s are a few more years old they’ll be decent candidates. I’m hoping the Focus RS is sold in enough volume that it’ll depreciate gracefully.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 01:22

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Okay I see where our differences are here. My definition of a proper DDis one that I don’t have to worry about not starting in the morning and not being at 100% regularly. You use beater as a DD synonym. If that’s the case then I agree, rattier coupes with blown V8s can work since tears on the seats or a cracked dash are practically expected. 80s camaros and mustangs in solid but worn shape can be had all day for 2 grand and an LS motor, supercharger, and trans aremaybe what, 2-4k depending on age?

But to me, using his “Mazda 3” deifnition, I would like a vehicle where there might not be many features but they are all executed well with nearly zero faults. So in the case of the Zs I want rust free everything and matching body color all around. If you just pick up some junkyard doors and whatnot, you can assemble a rolling 280z (not even a zx, a classic 280z)for about 3-5k with an interior of some kind......whcih I assume is your definition. But to my eyes, I would want a properly sorted interior possibly even with sound deadening. I don’t want ripped seats and windows that may or may not stay in their tracks or a radio that has half the speakers blown.

I guess here’s a test I would want my car to pass to qualify as a DD - the “parental unit” test. You go to meet your date’s parents. You need to drive this car. 1) Will it start for sure? 2) Will it get there for sure? 3) Will my date want me to be seen in it? 4) What will the parents say about it? Doesn’t matter what you think about yoruself in your own car cause I hope you love whatever you drive. But for my own amusement, consider the test on those terms. If the car had to pass that sort of test, now what would you build? Being more serious, I would imagine a carmax mercedes or BMW with an upgrade kit would be perfect. ou’re looking at 20-30k all said and done but then you have a german luxury sedan that can worry most italian sports cars in a straight line.

GhostZ > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/11/2015 at 01:28

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If you go that route in judging a “DD” Z, you’re approximating something closer to a collector’s car. You’re talking about tearing out the door panels and throwing down dynamat and replacing the most expensive part on any s30 or s130 z.... the dash. A uncracked dash for these cars can cost you more than the car itself. Getting that extra 10-20% of cleanliness out of these cars will triple the restoration cost. Getting something reliable and DD-able is much easier.

Zs don’t make good collector’s cars. There are too many of them, and they run too well and too reliably to really be something special worthy of a $20k restoration. Especially a 280ZX 2+2, which will never sell for what you put into it.

That being said, to meet your 4 question definition, I’m thinking you’d be looking at around $15k if you’re fine with a torn up but perfectly comfortable interior and faded paint. At the end of the day though, you would have the most undesirable Z car with the most desirable Chevrolet motor. It’s the definition of a beater sleeper.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 01:29

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W211 E55 with pulley, headers, tune, better and wider tires. Should put it over 600hp for between $15k and $20k. About 150hp gain on a car that already does 0-60 in the low 4 range, should be safely into the 3’s.

Cherry_man1 > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 01:30

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May be a bit iffy but maybe some sort of AMG car.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 01:42

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Well that was the point in my eyes - good parts get expensive. So yes......you got why I was thinking you were on crack for thinking a good, fully presentable (but not perfect) inside and out Z of ANY year is 6k....

GhostZ > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/11/2015 at 01:57

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This took me 15 seconds to find: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Datsun-Z-S…

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 02:04

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And like an idiot I forgot to add the “and does 0-60 in 4 seconds” tag.....you smartass

but you should’ve known that was implied :P

LeadfootYT > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 02:28

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Ford 302-swapped E36. It’s a straightforward swap (as V8 swaps into Bavarian sedans go), and leaves a ton of room in the budget to turbo/supercharge/otherwise modify.

GhostZ > AthomSfere 06/11/2015 at 03:24

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US M3 is over 6 seconds stock, so you’d need to improve it’s time by 30%. Euro M3 could do it though...

Nibby > Wjionieis 06/11/2015 at 08:18

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Borrow a fast car indefinitely.

AthomSfere > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/11/2015 at 09:19

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On which part?

AthomSfere > GhostZ 06/11/2015 at 09:20

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Maybe that’s where my stock 4.3 0-60 came from, Euro spec.

So what are the differences Euro to American? Restrictive parts we can scrape out?